To understand the actual point of this column I was on twitter and got talking about the wrestling cycle and how wrestling has its boom and downfall periods. Then it got me thinking about true legends and decided to show the appreciation I have for them. Okay so here we go.
WWE Raw rating got 2.7 and TNA getting 0.9 for this weeks shows. Some say it’s worrying for the industry but in my opinion, it’s just a bad spoke on the wheel of the wrestling cycle. If there is one thing wrestling history thought us is that there is ALWAYS a bad period and a boom period in pro wrestling. 30s, 80s, 90s all boom periods. Wrestling will always be like that. It’s one of the oldest sports known to us. We’re waiting on that next wrestler to grab the industry by the roots and blow us away with it. There was Gotch, George, Andre, Hogan, Austin, not so much Cena but you get my point. Could the next be CM Punk? Who knows, he seems to be getting better and better and more and more interesting. At least to me he is.
You know what pisses me off? Legends like Frank Gotch and Lou Thesz not getting recognition while somebody like Hulk Hogan does. That’s fucking wrong. Same with Gorgeous George and more. Instead this fucked up, yellow haired, selfish dumbass who knows two wrestling moves gets all the credit for wrestling being popular today. At least with John Cena getting recognition he can wrestle. For proof re-watch his match with Punk at MITB 2011. AND he carried the Rock at Wrestlemania. Cena, unlike Hogan can wrestle.
I’d LOVE to have a chat with Hulk Hogan and give him a piece of my mind. Dude probably doesn’t know who Gotch is. He probably thinks Gotch is an app for his phone or something ridiculous like that.
Frank Gotch and Lou Thesz need to be known. The best catch wrestler and hooker in the history of professional wrestling. That’s why I’m writing this column. Whether 200 people or 10,000 people read this it doesn’t matter, at least some of you will know about the true legends of wrestling.
Wanna know who Frank Gotch was? He revolutionized professional wrestling in the United States of America. Gotch was the very first American to win the world heavyweight free-style championship by defeating Georg Hackenschmidt in Chicago, Illinois. He held the belt for seven years and was one of the most recognized athletes at the time. He wrestled in the rough and tumble mining camps of Alaska, and in front of 31,000 fans in Chicago. He rubbed shoulders with some of the most interesting figures in early American history. Gotch died at the young age of 39 on December 16, 1917. He may not get the respect he deserves on wrestling shows/promotions but he has the respect of us here at Wrestling Rambles.
Lou Thesz, like Gotch, is one of wrestling’s living legends. Thesz started wrestling in the 1930s, and from the 1930s to the 1960s, he was one of the most dominant figures in the business. Thesz won his first World Heavyweight Title in the 1930s, and went on to become a 6-time World Heavyweight Champion, many of those reigns as the National Wrestling Alliance world champion. Thesz’ last reign was in the 1960s when he lost the NWA world title to Gene Kiniski. Thesz’ last match was in the early 1990s when he lost via submission to one of his protoges, Masahiro Chono. Thesz has also written an autobiography. Thesz gets more recognition than Gotch but still not enough.
The fact of the matter is, these two guys are so important to wrestling and they’re a huge reason why we’re watching it now. I have nothing personal against Hulk Hogan, it’s just that it pisses me off that he’s known as the man who globalized wrestling and shit. Like ask random people on the street to name a WRESTLER and the majority of them will say Hulk Hogan. That makes me sick to my stomach. I want to vomit. Hulk Hogan cannot wrestle, he is not a wrestler. I bet if you asked him what catch wrestling is or hook wrestling he wouldn’t have a clue. He goes on about how he knows so much about the business and all this shit it’s just so infuriating. On TNA this week Dixie mentioned how much Hogan knows about the business, it just set me off hating him even more. This is why true wrestling legends like Gotch and Thesz need to be recognized, known and talked about as they deserve it. They are the very reason wrestling is watched around America today. If Gotch never won that world heavyweight title, who knows if pro wrestling would be even watched in America today.
Let me know your thoughts guys and thanks for reading. I also want to thank many of you on twitter who RT’d and tweeted me while I was rambling and ranting on Hogan and praising and giving recognition to true legends. Not that I dislike twitter feedback, it’s just much easier for me to do all the rambling below in the comment box. I prefer to not have limited characters when talking about wrestling. So thanks again and let me know.
Ringsidehustle.com 
Ok, Gotch and Thesz are easily legends, but to act like Hogan is not one is just needlessly contrarion. You can’t judge them the same, because the times in which they were active were so different.
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Okay, but do you think it’s right Hogan gets all the credit of wrestling being successful rather than Gotch, thesz etc.. the only reason they aren’t being recognized is because they won’t make WWE or whoever any money. So Hogan is used as the greatest ever wrestler.
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They don’t get the creedit due to the time they were around. With cable getting big in the 80’s and more tv coming into rural areas, Hogan had more of a presence. Plus(and I hate to say it), the Gotch/Thesz generation is dying out so there aren’t as many people around to talk about it. People who are on the net now, grew up with Hogan, so he does have that place in our youth.
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NOWHERE in that ramble did I see a denial of Hogan being a legend. I saw strong assertions that he was not a wrestler. That’s just a fact that is as valid as can be. To argue that is pure foolishness.
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Thanks, I do admit though the column wasn’t worded to what I was trying to make clear but you seem to understand exactly where I’m coming from.
BTW are you on twitter?
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Actually wanted to give you my feedback privately so know one discredits what you said but I have no effective way of doing that so I’m putting it here. It was good information but the kind of stuff anyone can find on Wikipedia. More obscure references would’ve been better to give readers a feel for how those men impacted their era. Also, just a technical error: after telling us Gotch died, you referred to him as a “LIVING legend.” I don’t care about little things like that, but other people will use it as an excuse to throw out the whole thing. It’s b.s. but it’s true. Other than that, just what I was saying before, PINPOINT your argument. The issue is a valid one: Hogan gets all the recognition while deserving legends like Gotch and Thez are forgotten. Hogan not deserving as much recognition for his contributions to professional wrestling simply on the basis that he can’t wrestle is a subjective argument which a lot of people will fight you on. Nothing wrong with making that argument, just accept and admit that you’re giving your opinion. I think you’ll get a lot more discussion that way as opposed to arguments. This all just my advice which doesn’t mean shit. But if it helps then I’m glad I could share it. Feel free to tell me to fuck off if I get too full of myself, which I am prone to do.
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I wrote this at 1:30 AM my time and wanted to just publish it as soon as I could so I’m not surprised there’s some errors in it. When I said ”Living Legends” I worded it wrongly, I’ll change it up in a bit.
You’re not being full of yourself, I respect everything you said. I guess I should of stated the column in my opinion and all but I was more ranting than anything tbh.
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Not a bad column. It does suck that guys like Gotch, Thesz, Burns, George, Mondt, and others are not recognized for their contributions to the business.
To me, it’s a matter of opinion. If you feel this way about it, that’s your point of view. Thesz said himself on a scale of 1-10, as a Wrestler Hogan gets a 1 or 2, but as an entertainer he gets a 10.
Hogan of course is not the best Wrestler by any means, but you can’t take away the popularity he had back in the day. That’s just my opinion. We all have them, Ray.
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Yeah I think I saw that interview on YT.
There’s no doubt Hogan was one of the greatest entertainers of all time. But it’s annoying that wrestling companies don’t give recognition to actual ‘wrestling’ legends. The problem I have with Hogan is not the 70s, 80s Hogan, it’s the WCW and TNA Hogan that annoys me. Like I don’t completely disrespect him.
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Wrestling has changed as different styles go in and out. It’s kinda like movies or tv. Gotch would be the “smart drama” while Hogan would be the “big, action flick”. I think it has less to do with “wrestling talent”. It has to do with different sensibilities.
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Thesz and Gotch were legends, and anyone who is a wrestling historian knows who they are. Their contributions to the business are enormous but their contributions aren’t as big as Hogan’s were.
You said that Hogan isn’t a good wrestler, which is nothing but a subjective argument. Wrestling isn’t about how many moves you can do, it’s where and why you do them. Hogan could do a wristlock. Watch his Japan matches if you don’t believe me. The reason he didn’t do them was because it didn’t fit his WWF character and wouldn’t have made sense. Whether or not Hogan’s matches were too formulaic is completely subjective. What isn’t subjective is how big of reaction he received from those matches. The most important element of a wrestler’s attributes as a worker is how the crowd reacts to his matches. Hogan was excellent at getting the crowd on max volume.
In a sport that isn’t real, the most important wrestler is the one that makes the most money. Hogan made the most money ever, thus that makes him objectively the best wrestler ever.
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I’m sorry but saying Hogan is the best wrestler ever is an insult to every pro wrestler in the world. Cody Rhodes is a better wrestler than Hulk Hogan, would you disagree with that? Can you actually say Hulk Hogan has better wrestling ability than Cody Rhodes? I highly doubt you could. Just because he made money, doesn’t mean he’s a good wrestler. It means he has the good look, talking skills and good work ethic. The Big Show sells more merchandise than AJ Styles, does that mean Big Show is a better wrestler?
The reason you’re backing Hogan is because it’s what WWE and TNA have shoved down our throats to make money, it’s just being good business’s and as business’s it’s the right thing to do, if it makes them money.
My problem is people don’t realize how much impact Gotch and Thesz had on the wrestling industry in America.
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It’s not just about “wrestling”, but the ability to connect with an audience. Cody’s just now entering his prime and Hogan’s past his. I would much rather watch a Hogan “in his prime” match than a Cody match. That may change in the future.
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I totally agree with what you are saying and to be honest I feel it is very similar with John Cena. Is Cena a better wrestler than Dolph Ziggler, Cody Rhodes or even Kofi Kingston. I would say no and he is only at the top because they same reasons you mentioned.
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There are people who were a lot better than Hogan in the ring in my opinion, but that’s all subjective. The only thing you can rate a wrestler on with merit is his crowd reaction and the money he made. Hogan easily had the biggest crowd reactions and made the most money. Therefore, making him the greatest wrestler of all time.
I like Cody Rhodes and all, but he hasn’t drawn flies on shit yet.
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Well, those flies are on a diet.
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I immediately agreed that referring to HH as”objectively the best wrestler ever” was insulting to all wrestlers. Then I gave it a second thought. and concluded something else. It’s also an insult to me that someone would expect me to buy such drivel.
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See, here’s the thing. I don’t think you can have a legit “best ever”. Each wrestler has had good and bad things they do.
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I really don’t see how Hulk Hogan is a good wrestler. Whatever about his personality and influence he had in the 80s. If he was in the ring with Gotch or Thez, it wouldn’t be funny how much he’d lose by. Just to clarify, I’m not saying Hogan wasn’t important and didn’t make WWF money. That’s not what I’m trying to say here.
I’m saying it’s a fucking joke that early wrestlers don’t get recognition. Then I rambled on Hogan.
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Rise above hate, Ray.
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Wrestling isn’t about winning or losing. Both wrestlers work together to put on something entertaining. That is why it’s called sports entertainment. Just because Thez and Gotch could kick Hogan’s ass in the ring, doesn’t make them better professional wrestlers. It makes them better shoot-wrestlers, but that isn’t what wrestling is about.
You’re going to find that with almost any sports, though. The stars of today always get more recognition than stars of the past.
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Yeah, there is way more of a chance to see the ones of today.
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Lou Thesz is so awesome that a wrestling move is named after him. They haven’t created the “Hogan Leg Drop” yet.
As for Hogan, it is not insulting to call him the greatest Professional Wrestler of all-time. The key word is “Professional”. I’m not saying Hogan should have competed in the Olympics. Out of the few Pro Wrestlers that are mainstream, Hogan’s name is probably the most recognizable. Ric Flair said it best. He said something like, “As great as I am, you ask people on the street who Ric Flair is and not everyone is going to know who he is. But people know who Hulk Hogan is.”
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I understand that Tony and I don’t even have a problem with that. My problem is wrestling promotions should at least bring his name up in a promo or something like that. Like Punk could say…”I’m as good as Frank Gotch” know what I’m saying?
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Fans can relate to Hogan better than Gotch, because the core fanbase wasn’t around when Gotch was big, but do remember Hulk.
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People don’t know who Frank Gotch is so people wouldn’t know if being as good as him is a good thing or a bad thing.
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That’s exactly the problem.
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But most fans can’t control that. They weren’t around during his day, so they don’t have that emotional connection to him the way they do with Hogan.
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No doubt that it’s awesome to have a press named after you. That’ll keep his name alive forever. But, don’t forget that Frank went beyond the scope of wrestling to keep his name alive. He actually had a type of political reporting question named after him. You know, the “Gotcha”. Okay, I apologize!
kno know, the “Gotcha “. Okay, I apo
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Nice one! I love a good pun! 🙂
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I don’t believe Hogan is by any means a good wrestler but John Cena is so overrated, his move range and ability is so limited.
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With Cena, he can wrestle good IMO. Like his performance against Punk was amazing at MITB 2011. He carried The Rock too. That can’t be overlooked either.
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Cena is an good wrestler, but a terrific performer. That’s what sets him apart.
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Its no surprise Cena carried The Rock since The Rock didn’t have a singles in 9 years.
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But you would have to have “some” talent to be able to do so and on the biggest stage of them all to boot. Honestly, I don’t care who carried a match and who didn’t. It takes all the people involved to tell that story(wrestlers, agents, refs, creative, fans, announcers, etc.).
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And it was still a decent match, wasn’t it? Which proves he has good wrestling ability.
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I’ve been saying that sinse he started getting “YOU CAN’T WRESTLE!!!’ chants.
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Ok, but compare him to almost anyone else in the roster, in wrestling ability he is only in the middle.
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What are you using to determine this? Is there a scientific method used in order to calculate who is a good wrestler and who isn’t? I still say it’s mostly about sensibilities.
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I am not denying that Cena is a huge draw, and very good on the mic but watching one of his matches tends to be boring, when you compare it to the likes of Kofi Kingston but that is just my wrestling preference.
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Exactly! Sensibilities. One reason I like the Cena “five moves of doom” is it reminds me of a combo in a fighting game. Cena goes into a zone, hits those moves and before the opponent knows what’s going on, it’s over. Might be why I like the whimsical things in life.
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Excellent graham bolsa chica road a lot of wrestling knowledge. I’d only add the 1950s as a boom period in the industry. As soon as TV debuted in the late ’40s, pro wrestling was a smash hit. That era produced wrestling’s first crossover personality, Gorgeous George. He appeared on many of the game and talk shows of the time. Same era also produced the original Ric Flair, Buddy Rogers. Flair stole his name “Nature Boy”, while cloning his wrestling style, look and promo delivery. Ric Flair was excellent at what he did, and I marked out for him as much as anybody. But, he was not original!
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Damned voice texting! That first line was supposed to read: “Ex. “Excellent ramble, showed a lot of” I don’t have a clue why it came out that way.
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Voice texting isn’t the best technology at the moment, haha.
Some people don’t think the time of Gotch was a boom period, which is very understandable. But Gotch did attract a helluva lot more people to come, pay and watch his matches in the US. So there was a sort of a boom period IMO. Just when TV came in it was much easier to build characters as more people saw what was happening which generated more money as people wanted to see them, because they knew who they were and what they were capable of. That’s why Gorgeous George was a huge draw. Combined with his look, it was the TV that made him successful.
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OMenG! You got your wish. On this week’s ROH, Kyle O’Reilly referred to “wrestling legends like Billy Robinson, Karl (close enough?) Gotcha and Lou Thesz.” I think that you owe O’Reilly. a thank you tweet.
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I actually sent ROH an email a few weeks back regarding an interview with one of their wrestlers for June 1st, they never replied. They had the link of the site so who knows, lol.
It’s okay though because we interviewed Goldust!!
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Seems I’ve rubbed off on you :p
That being said, I completely get what you’re trying to get over. I hate how people believe Hogan made wrestling in the US, when he’s further down the list. After Gotch, George, Thesz, the Gold Dust Trio, and Vincent K. McMahon, then you can name Hogan.
I understand he’s one of the most popular (not THE most), and for that he deserves recognition as a legend, but he’s not the most popular, nor the guy who made American wrestling what it is today.
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I slowly began to turn on Hogan, then after I did I realized you were right in hating him. It’s funny because I was actually defending him at the time, WOW.
I wasn’t trying to say he’s not a legend, I think some people thought I was saying that. There’s no doubt he is a legend. I just hate how he’s known as the guy who made wrestling in the US. I do want to know why the likes of Gotch and Thesz aren’t recognized more though.
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People have a tendency to forget history. Plus, while many fans do get into through family members, a good amount discover it on their own, while older fans lose interest. Unfortunately, a good portion of people in general aren’t interested in any history, and can’t be bothered to learn.
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Without Hogan(and the fisrt WM doing well), I’m not sure the WWE would still be around.
To me, Hogan’s love wasn’t about his wrestling, but the atmosphere(the red and yellow, booming rock music, fans going insane). It takes people of that age back to a time when they weren’t so cynical.
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I think WWE would still be successful just not until a few years after the first WM. If there’s one thing I have learned in life, there is always somebody out there better than you. This happens everywhere. Especially in sports.
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See, that’s what I hate. Not you Capt, but that mentality that “without Hogan, there’d be no…”
Without Vince, there would be no Hulk Hogan, no Hulkmania, WrestleMania, or countless other things. Vince could’ve picked, and made, anyone to play the role of the Hulkster.
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It’s not so much about Hogan, but they needed a larger than life guy for the time and Hogan fit the bill. It has more to do with WM than Hogan. If the first WM had failed, WWE might not be around.
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Gotch was important for wrestling generally. Because of his popularity and ability to win legit wrestling championships, it sparked the creation of amateur wrestling in schools and colleges across the USA. Gotch’s rematch with Hackenschmidt sold out a baseball stadium in Chicago just over 100 years ago, and it was national news.
Thesz was the best promoted American wrestler who had an air of authenticity about him. When he broke into Pro Wrestling though, he’d never had a legit competitive bout, so it’s hard to say how good he actually was without getting lost among the bluster and kayfabe.
Someone perhaps more important than Thesz and Gotch as it pertains specifically to Pro Wrestling, is Ed Lewis who really changed Pro Wrestling from the mat centric sport style, to the Slam Bang entertainment style and incorporated more acrobatics and theatrics into it. Lewis competed at a time when some matches were real, and some matches were pre-determined, and he also promoted Thesz when Thesz broke into the business. Thesz remarked himself he was never able to get the better of Lewis in a straight up catch wrestling match, even when Lewis was middle ages and retired from the wrestling side.
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It’s hard to tell whether or not the matches were legit back then or not, we’ll never know. From the old wrestling matches I have watched, the classiest I saw was from Thesz’ matches but Gotch was more important, he somewhat brought more popularity for wrestling into America by defeating Hackenschmidt.
Another really important American wrestler was the coach and trainer of Gotch, Martin ”Farmer” Burns. I don’t think he’s seen as important as wrestling wasn’t that popular in the US during the 1800s. When you research American wrestling history, it’s hard to find important wrestlers before the time of Gotch or even his coach.
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Gotch and Thesz are great wrestlers but Hogan is one the greatest superstars ever and he keep Vince out of jail so we may not be watching WWE today without Hogan.
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Plus he has funny tweets.
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Hogan RT’d something the other day after someone said something sexual about Brook.
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I believe it was “Hey Hulk, I went ballsdeep on Brooke, could I get a retweet?”.
He got the retweet.
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Hogan probably originated the tweet.
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I’m sure he’d like to take it back, but…what you gonna do? (sorry)
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Replying to this:
Exactly. Vince and WWE were/are successful because they were creative and knew how to build characters. Vince is a storyteller and a good one and that.
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But Hogan was the perfect guy at the time. He was big, connected with the crowd, and he could tell the story in the ring.
While it is true that Vince is the WWE right now, he’s supposed to be VERY out of touch with what people are into. He hasn’t gone out to see a movie in 20-25 years. He has no idea what’s big. But he wants it his way and won’t listen to others. That’s why creative doesn’t say no to him. He has that much power. He is in control.
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That doesn’t mean another creation of the larger than life ‘superstar’ wasn’t going to happen. Gorgeous George was that larger than life superstar because of the introduction of wrestling on TV.
You could be right about Vince, but that’s what his creative team are for. I listened to PWTorch’s livecast interview with Vince Russo and PW.nets interview with Set Mates and from what I gathered, Vince isn’t as bad as what everyone thinks.
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It’s not so much that Vince is “bad”, just out of touch, and big time.
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Hulk Hogan’s a legend, deal with it, you uptight smark.
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I’m not a ‘smark’, lol.
And by the way, what is actually wrong with being a ‘smark’?
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The conventional “smark” is kinda like Damien Sandow in a way. That’s what’s bad about it.
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Another person I would mention, is Gorgeous George. I wonder how many wrestling fans today even know of him.
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Sorry, missed where you mentioned him.
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I’ll right away grab your rss feed as I can’t find your email subscription link or e-newsletter service. Do you’ve any? Please permit me realize in order that I may just subscribe. Thanks.
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